> Anthropic are strongly rumored to be about to have their first profitable quarter
No, its more like their own leak to WSJ and according to Ed Zitron -> seems to be heavily engineered via non-GAAP practices such as counting potential, but not realised revenue as actual revenue - the stuff for which I would be arrested if I did it at my company.
Also it appears according to Ed's analysis - strangely they seem to be projecting only that one quarter as profitable - potentially to calm the investors ahead of the IPO. Investor fraud anyone?
Also it was but a few months ago that their CFO said, in a court filing, that Anthropic's revenue across the entire lifetime of the company "exceeds $5 billion". Pretty strange.
How is it strange? The "exceeds $5B" quote was from December 2025. Anthropic has seen tremendous growth since then, ever since Claude Code with Opus 4.5 got really good at coding.
If you've ever been at a startup, this is exactly what it looks like when you go from not having product-market fit to having it (though with a few extra zeros on the end compared to most).
All three of those are official releases from Anthropic. You can choose not to believe the if you like, but since they plan to IPO this year it's in their interest not to get caught lying to potential investors.
As a non-public company they can use whatever non-GAAP black magic accounting to claim anything while still not technically lying. It just doesn't correlate to anything we'd actually call revenue.
Not at all, because the magic can be applied differently at different times. They're undergoing a funding run now so they've got a massive incentive to come up with all kinds of revenue.
They've also signed a deal for billions in compute with xAI for april-may so they're certainly using that to fake billions in revenue using non-GAAP bullshit. It just seems a tad more likely than them legitimately increasing actual revenue by 233% in four months out of the blue.
Sorry man I hate to say this but you and many others need to stop commenting on accounting, finance and economics as its clearly way out of your realm of expertise.
Do you know what revenue recognition is? Do you know what accrual accounting is? Do you know of the phenomenon that is 'managed earnings'?
The only true objective number in finance is cash flows.
> Their revenue has quadrupled in just a few months
Maybe, maybe not. We haven't seen that S-1 yet. All we have is the 5B in lifetime so far. PLUS - revenue quadrupled or not, it only matters if their costs did not expand at the same rate or more. Revenue is not profit.
OK, so when S-1 comes out you will finally allow yourself to be wrong? Your prior is, a 1T company plans to IPO and their leader has been loudly committing an insane amount of fraud? I mean this of course is possible but that is quite the conspiracy. The scrutiny of an IPO would be a crazy thing to do if you were committing fraud at the scale you're suggesting.
Revenue is not profit yet the discussion in this particular thread is about revenue.
No, it's not. It's a stupid thing to say. Perfectly stupid assumption. There are 1000s of multi billion $ revenue companies operating and as a % the number that are fraudulent is close to zero, especially those public or looking to go public. There is always the possibility, but it's extremely naive to think it's likely.
Ed is a smart guy, but you or anyone basing your opinion on what one eloquent journalist says is ultimately a risky bet, no matter how much his reporting hits your particular dopamine receptors.
Please don't forget that Ed's entire brand identity is now 1:1 with exposing "AI" as a giant, unmitigated failure.
That's a very specific flow chart to hook your caboose to when none of this is even remotely close to endgame.
We don't have to take Ed's word for it. Anybody who's capable of doing grade school math can see that the numbers simply don't work. These companies are literally spending orders of magnitude more money than they're actually bringing in. Cursor, who've been renting Claude, estimated just recently that a $200-per-month Claude Code subscription could use up to $2,000 in compute. https://www.forbes.com/sites/annatong/2026/03/05/cursor-goes...
> According to a person familiar with the company’s internal analysis, Cursor estimated last year that a $200-per-month Claude Code subscription could use up to $2,000 in compute, suggesting significant subsidization by Anthropic. Today, that subsidization appears to be even more aggressive, with that $200 plan able to consume about $5,000 in compute, according to a different person who has seen analyses on the company’s compute spend patterns.
The load-bearing detail here is if that means $2,000 of internal server+electricity costs, or $2,000 if they were to charge at their API pricing instead of the subscription cost.
The latter is how I understand these things to work right now. If it's the former then yeah, Anthropic are losing a TON of money on those subscriptions.
Frankly, everyone in the industry knows. When people make these statements without additional clarity they always talk about API prices. You can look at the NVL72 specs and make estimates for electricity and ownership costs rather easily. Inference at data-center scale is dirt cheap, even with public codes using dynamo and sglang. The mystery is why the early misconceptions about inefficient inference persisted even after NVIDIA was very open about everything they did to help reduce costs dramatically in the last two years.
I imagine it's the lack of transparency. The costs are obviously coming down as people figure out how to tune both hardware and software. But there are costs other than just electricity as well. For example, chips do burn out, I recall reading that 2 to 3 years is roughly what you can expect under inference loads, so replacing chips is a non trivial operational cost.
Also, as the costs of running this stuff come down, the incentive to rent models goes down with them. Running local models has the benefit that you get to keep your data local, you can tune them to do what you like, and you're not subject to model or price changes down the road. This makes self hosting appealing both to individuals and companies. Currently, the barrier is in needing significant resources to run the models, but companies are already increasingly doing that with open models. And local inference that regular people can run is becoming a possibility as well.
While I'm sure there's always going to be a market for renting out models as a service, it may shrink significantly as the costs continue to come down.
Pretty much. Ed does a lot of great work in digging through all this stuff but his conclusions always feel far too doomer oriented. OpenAL should have closed 5 times by now if you have been following his assertations from the start.
There will be big parts of what he says are true once the rubble settles but it will not be anywhere near what he is predicting. How that will shape out may not be great for the average person, what money shuffling tricks will be used? But it won't be a total wreck.
Honestly, I think it's very short-sighted to assume that all of this will be seen as any kind of wreck in the long term.
Normies are still catching up and reacting to chat-based LLMs.
HN types are further ahead of the curve, but still catching up and reacting to agentic coding and design workflows.
What often gets completely ignored is that entirely new modalities for how the underlying tech can be applied will continue to be demonstrated, and those will once again cause new ripples of excitement and disgust.
There are companies building world models and systems for protein discovery. Comparatively speaking, these approaches are barely in the zeitgeist today.
Deciding that we already have the data points we need to extrapolate how all of this plays out is like someone in 1974 deciding that microprocessors are just for accounting and inventory. Don't be that someone.
I think the big issue isn't so much a technology thing, I mean that will improve for a long while yet, but it is an economic one. My whole concern over the rapid expansion of LLM's is the massive build out on a technology that hasn't found its feet in a big enough range of markets yet that are willing to pay top dollar. Yes, world models for protein discover is very cool stuff and I kind of hate it gets lumped in with these other companies efforts because it has a very clear path forward that doesn't rely on massive IPO's just to keep the lights on.
This stuff is here to stay but I'm not sure how many of the current front runners will be able to stay solvent if they cannot turn these things in to massive money spinners. Revenue is fine-ish but spending is out of control. I see the debt in hundred of billions of dollars and start to wonder "Who is going to pay for this?" and "Will the people be willing to pay that much?". It just all feels forced rather than organic growth.
This is why I think Google may end up being one of the leaders in this field. They have their custom TPU's that seem to be fairly efficient at these tasks, they are slowly but surely improving their training and inference tech using their massive data set and most importantly, other parts of the business can subsidize this stuff for a decade if needed until it is genuinely profitable.
I am not against the industry but I do worry that many are rushing in with no means of genuine sustainability other than jump out for a golden parachute and let someone else clean up the mess.
I mean optimistically I hope there is a big reduction of hardware requirements in future. One of those technological jumps that nobody sees in advance but looks obvious in hindsight. If the need to the amount of compute goes down enough,that is a brilliant path through.
There's a good reason to look at it separately: if inference is profitable then they make money (or at least lose less money) when they get more customers, because any fixed costs are spread across more usage.
Depreciation is part of the cost of inference. Inference happens in GPUs that have a relatively short lifespan.
Those GPUs are very expensive.
Inference is expensive because a GPU can only process a certain amount of requests in a given timeframe. Remember that Anthropic is constrained in compute.
If they are constrained, it means that those GPUs are not idle. If they have more customers, they will need more GPUs.
If they have to play silly games using EBITDA to be "profitable", then it means that they need to ramp up prices a lot more than they already did.
Which is why in these discussions I always say that inference is also extremely expensive. Too many people like to pretend without any evidence that inference is cheap.
You can "just not update an LLM" in theory. But if your competition updates LLMs, and gets more capable, more efficient LLMs, and you don't? They get more capable "expensive tiers", and cheaper "cheap tiers" of LLMs. What are you going to do then? Bleed userbase and die?
I think the key thing that depreciates is all their models. You train one at crazy cost and 6 months later it’s worth $0. If you ignore that depreciation you look much more profitable.
Assuming that there are infinite suckers with cash to spend. It's entirely possible (if unlikely) that the market is not big enough to cover the training costs. Especially for multiple companies all burning insane amount of money on the regular.
Bubble popped when they increased prices. IPO may help cover some of the costs, but AI is very elastic and can be swapped out for any other company second to second. Which is why I think they bought up ram and disks like they did, to starve out competition and local models.
I must admit that I am going to find it fascinating when we hit the point where it becomes nearly impossible to deny the efficacy of these tools. I have straight up had people, even in real life, suggest that I'm lying about my productivity gains or what I'm able to accomplish with them.
Like, I understand the reasonable arguments against (I even agree with a few), but it's clear that some people have fully inserted their head into the sand and just don't want to believe any of this could be true. Which will be harsh, since I think getting hit with this train all at once in the future is going to be a rougher ride than a slower coming-to-terms-with, even if the result is one we're unhappy with.
What is the motivation for us users to lie about our experiences? It's to the degree now that people simply refuse to believe that I'm honestly describing my experiences with these tools?
I understand the motivations for the labs to lie, but what do you think mine is?
Oh, basic counting is now arithmetic? But I was told they were superintelligent and were going to cause an apocalypse because they can do pretty much everything ? Somehow because they can excrement a lot of text, we were told they can do everything else too?
thats not that far off. Costs like $100Ms to train a frontier coding agent model today, billions if you count the full pipeline. Combine that with the infra we're building out, the fact that you have multiple labs building similar scaled models, the industry-wide costs of training frontier models could easily surpass 10B/yr in 2027
Their CEO claims a lot of wild shit. He claimed in January this year, that in about 2-3 weeks from this moment, i.e. "in 6 months" that AI will be doing all of SWE work. Lets hold these people accountable for a change!
> "in 6 months" that AI will be doing all of SWE work
I assume this is the quote you're referring to from Davos?
"I have engineers within Anthropic who say I don’t write any code anymore. I just let the model write the code, I edit it. I do the things around it… we might be six to twelve months away from when the model is doing most, maybe all of what SWEs do end to end."
that was in Jan, he said "might" and he said 6-12 months. Yes! Let's hold him accountable for saying reasonable things!
Reasonable things? He said the same shit over and over over the last several years. Yes, lets hold him accountable - you don't make such "oopsies" accidentally, several times in a row.
Seems pretty reasonable to me. Timescales are hard for anyone to predict. He is forced to do these predictions to know how much compute to buy in advance. Surprisingly, he underbought compute and now has to scramble to secure it from xAI or wherever he can. So he was overly conservative...
Indeed. That's why serious people are very careful, even if they are not running a company supposedly worth 1T USD
> He is forced to do these predictions to know how much compute to buy in advance
Ah well, that explains it. For my companies next quarter, I'll just pull some random numbers out of my ass so we can make plans with material impact to company business based on that.
> That's why serious people are very careful, even if they are not running a company supposedly worth 1T USD
10x revenue growth per year, even more this year...his predictions about when agents will claim SWE e2e work are his speculations, relevant because people care about what he thinks as he is closer than anyone to the leading edge of the technology. It's also important for him to be as accurate as he can about this because he has to put his money where his mouth is. He has to sign the right amount of compute otherwise he screws himself. He got it wrong in the opposite direction that you're implying, so at this point it sounds like you are more interested in your axe to grind than the truth on the ground.
You think enterprises are adopting CC because they think "oh this will replace my SWEs I can fire them"? That's not happening at major companies. They buy CC because it's useful and the writing is so clearly on the wall in so many data points that to suggest otherwise is a bit silly at this point.
> For my companies next quarter, I'll just pull some random numbers out of my ass so we can make plans with material impact to company business based on that.
You, as a leader of a company, don't have to make predictions? Don't have to make bets about what the best thing for you to do next year? That must be incredibly nice.
Amodei and everyone else need to plan compute and plan their products and roadmap. You want him to....not do that?
> You think enterprises are adopting CC because they think "oh this will replace my SWEs I can fire them"?
Yeah, that's actually Darios main talking point
> They buy CC because it's useful and the writing is so clearly on the wall in so many data points that to suggest otherwise is a bit silly at this point
Right, really sound arguments - writing is "clearly on the wall" and there are "so many data points". I'd be keen to use those immediately, but I am kind of missing the key of the "many data points" - namely, what did you build with it and how much ARR is it generating?
> You, as a leader of a company, don't have to make predictions
I have to make predictions, but not confabulations, lies and idiocies.
> Amodei and everyone else need to plan compute
FOR WHAT? Again, what was built with their shitty product in various companies and how much ARR did it generate? Uber seems to get no value out of it.
Anthropic has generated far more than 5B in revenue, I don’t know what sort of computer you have but it evidently does have the Internet, I would recommend using that unless the Internet CEOs are also in trouble for hyping that one up.
> Right, really sound arguments - writing is "clearly on the wall" and there are "so many data points".
Thank you for recognizing this. Don’t read Ed and think you understand anything about AI is all I’ll say. Read epoch capability index paper and look at the dashboard chart or the METR time horizon chart and methodology and then return with what I imagine from historical comments will be another ferocious and impressive act of mental gymnastics.
> I have to make predictions, but not confabulations, lies and idiocies.
Idk you’ve been misquoting and aggressively against addressing any facts you are presented with and yet bring no facts of your own (hint: if you know what you’re talking about typically you can calmly discuss with actual facts). That feels pretty similar to confabulations, I won’t say idiocy I’m sure you are not an idiot but you seem to have a lot in common with your caricatures of tech CEOs.
I work in big tech and probably 90% of code over the last month has been written by AI. And I suspect it's probably higher within Anthropic, which is probably what he's basing his opinion on.
So, he's closer to correct than not.
That said, your recollection is also flawed. It was in mid-March, and here's the relevant quotes:
>I think we’ll be there in three to six months—where AI is writing 90 percent of the code. And then in twelve months, we may be in a world where AI is writing essentially all of the code.
[...]
>But the programmer still needs to specify, you know, what are—what are the conditions of what you’re doing, what—you know, what is the overall app you’re trying to make, what’s the overall design decision? How do we collaborate with other code that’s been written? You know, how do we have some common sense on whether this is a secure design or an insecure design?
[...]
>So as long as there are these small pieces that a programmer, a human programmer, needs to do, the AI isn’t good at, I think human productivity will actually be enhanced. But on the other hand, I think that eventually all those little islands will get picked off by AI systems.
With another 3-4 months left on the clock, his prediction seems remarkably on point for at least certain organizations and domains.
I welcome you to also hold yourself accountable in the coming months if this trend continues. ;)
Yep! We have a review process where we have a few agents, each tuned to a particular domain of expertise (security, code quality, etc) which iterate until the feedback meets a certain threshold, at which point it goes over to humans for (hopefully) final review.
That said, I generally agree that you're correct: writing code in many ways has not been the biggest bottleneck. However, by removing much of that writing, it frees up engineers to work on the uniquely human things that are larger bottlenecks.
I had a few comments in a thread here touching on where I think most of the value has come from for us (which is largely search/understanding of our dependencies and making away team work far more viable, which aids with cutting through bureaucracy and the tendency for teams to push back on work): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48298731
Haven't you heard - these days they just throw slop generated by LLM agents over to other LLM agents which cosplay as internal QA. They know it works because they write really strict .MD files where they instruct agents in English language to 'never do this' and 'always do that'.
This is really what you think happens at large tech companies? You don't think it's possible this is maybe even slightly overly simplifying what the relevant processes are?
Comment does indicate you don’t really seek to know how things work with respect to this and seem to not be able to imagine that the Occam’s razor is: agents are more useful than you think they are.
> I welcome you to also hold yourself accountable in the coming months if this trend continues. ;)
My company did not swallow hundreds of billions in shady investment deals and is not publicly traded. We work with real money, and the revenue on our books is the revenue that is actually booked, not fake revenue we plan in 2 years time to maybe happen. So no, I am not going to hold myself accountable. But people who work with other people's money should be absolutely held accountable when their wild imaginations don't come true, repeatedly, quarter after quarter, year after year!
Mate, for 5 years I've been hearing that crap. I am not predicting anything / on the contrary the AI boosting bunch is. When are your predictions coming true?
AFAIK, most predictions from several years ago were for...approximately now to within the next few years. Can you be more specific?
You criticized a very specific (and fake/misquoted) prediction, ignored the correction, and are now criticizing vague hand-wavey "predictions" that you have left unspecified.
Can you please stop with the angry/ranty replies and actually have a real conversation grounded in actual facts?
Now, having said all of the above...I'll also point out that these are predictions, not promises/guarantees. These people are being asked to forecast and are doing so. I hardly think they should be held responsible for not being literal oracles, but even so--please, at least quote them correctly/at all.
In short: be better than the hallucinations you're seen to call out from the models.
I will note that you have essentially not responded to anything specific in my comment, nor at least acknowledged that you misstated Dario Amodei's actual prediction.
So, unsourced vibes from a shady guy whose entire empire is built on being against AI?
I genuinely don't know how folks can continuously buy into anything he has to say after that Wired piece. The credibility there is seriously lacking.
Please, continue to be skeptical of the labs. But people need to stop talking about this dude as if he's the Holy Grail of the anti-AI movement. It's going to blow up in y'alls faces.
Ed actually provides sources and goes into an incredible amount of detail as to how he came to his conclusions. The average AI booster just goes "I totally built ten businesses off vibe coding but I can't tell you anything because it's a SECRET!". And the mainstream tech media is so in the pocket of big tech and AI corporations that they might as well just publish their PR emails at this point. Yeah, I'll listen to Ed thank you very much.
I think it's telling that most critics don't address his actual points, but instead his credibility because he's a "hater".
That said, I really mean it when I say that I don't actually think Ed is a good choice for the anti-AI movement. I think an actual opposition is useful, but he ain't it.
It's an interesting profile, but I don't see why it would change my opinion of him. I already knew he works in PR, it's not like a thing he hides. I don't think one error in a spreadsheet really proves anything (plus he's pretty honest about being an amateur at financial analysis -- but most of what he's looking at is pretty basic math and it's baffling that nobody has an answer to his pretty straightforward questions of how-will-this-ever-make-money)
I guess like, I don't know about an anti-ai "movement", personally I like AI-the-product but I think AI-the-industry is extremely sketchy and has motivations that I think are awful. As with all technology revolutions, my issue is more with the people than the technology itself.
I don't really like how this whole thing has become "pro ai" vs "anti ai" though. For me, I'm just really irritated when I use AI every day, I'm a professional software developer, and all my experiences with it do not match the (very annoying) hype. I kind of wish we could just go back to talking about software engineering and if people like vibe coding, great, go do that and stop all the annoying think pieces that just give CEO's even worse AI psychosis.
I read the profile and didn't see anything really wrong. Why would PR companies have to believe in their clients? Why does he have to be held to higher moral standards than Sam Altman who’s a total lying snake?
The error you call out is hardly “serious”, as the whole argument is uninteresting. It is a stupid indefensible error but the argument about revenue being 20% or 30% lower than reported isn’t that central to his overall thesis. Stuff that matters is inference cost, profitability, actual training costs.
> So, unsourced vibes from a shady guy whose entire empire is built on being against AI?
Actually he provides sources when he analyses stuff and imho much better than the usual corporate "Sam Altman says we should ask ChatGPT how to raise babies" crap. Also, I don't know many 'shady' guys who have built entire "empires", nor does he seem to actually have an empire. Usually being shady means you are kind of unknown and all. I am not glorifying Ed, don't even know him personally. I am not even impressed with his writing style much to be honest. But he brings important facts and information to light, which otherwise would have been lost in the cacophony of corporate media light treatment of these con-men. Holy Grail? Blowing up in our faces? WTF are you talking about?
The source was the article in the WSJ itself, which then referred to their source at the Anthropic. Which kind of is a textbook definition of "leak". Because otherwise Anthropic would have their lawyers hunting both the employee breaking their stringent NDA and the WSJ as well...
Why puzzled ? I literally said "According to Ed Zitron", implying that's where I stumbled upon the article. I've no time to read corporate media, at least not regularly.
No, its more like their own leak to WSJ and according to Ed Zitron -> seems to be heavily engineered via non-GAAP practices such as counting potential, but not realised revenue as actual revenue - the stuff for which I would be arrested if I did it at my company.
Also it appears according to Ed's analysis - strangely they seem to be projecting only that one quarter as profitable - potentially to calm the investors ahead of the IPO. Investor fraud anyone?